Annual Print Competition

Tue 19 Apr 2011 11:00pm

Mono Pictorial Gracefield Shield Katya Anne Greiner
Colour Pictorial Barnett Shield Dangerous Games Bogdan Gofron
Colour Landscape Salon Shield White Row David Jardine
Mono Landscape George Austin Cup End of the Road David Jardine
Portrait Simon Reid Trophy Shelter Bogdan Gofron
Imaginative / Contemporary Salon 93 Trophy The Predator Colin Marr
Sport and Action Johnston Plaque The Challenge Sandy Robertson
Still Life / Table top San Francisco Photog Winter Triptych Hazel Marr
Natural World John Harries Trophy Goldfinches Fighting Edmund Fellowes
Record/Photojournalism new trophy Under Cover Bogdan Gofron

Not competed for - Octocentenary Trophy (Junior) and Best Beginner Trophy

Commended were
Sparrowhawk and Wood Pigeon Ian Findlay
Dark Red Squirrel
Frogs Hazel Marr
Whooper Swans Displaying Edmund Fellowes
Goldfinches Edmund Fellowes
Brown Hare Running Mick Durham
The Go-Between Colin Marr
Island Memories Colin Marr
Edzil Rod Wheelans
Gymnastic Rod Wheelans
Yellow Wellies Rod Wheelans
Should have gone to Specsavers Rod Wheelans
Piano Practice Rod Wheelans
The Duck Lady Shirley Wilson
The Cook and His Boy Anne Greiner
Aw Mum! Anne Greiner
Cow Under the House Anne Greiner
The Threat John Wilson
Old Friends
Break-Up Memories
In the Phone Booth Bogdan Gofron
Sound of Sleat - Skye
Riverdance Ian Newton
Pintail Reflections

(fill in the gaps if you can please)

The Judges were
Al Buntin (Dundee), Rikki O'Neil (Dundee), Hunter Kennedy (Carluke)


In answer to a question

Beginners Annual .... To be eligible for the ‘Beginner’s’ award, the author must have been a member of the club for less than 2 years and not have won any club competition. It is the member’s decision as to whether or not their images are considered for this award by indicating their beginner’s status on the print label. The competition secretary has the final authority to decide whether or not a member is a ‘beginner’.

You can see ................ the 2011 Print Annual trophy winners here

Just a brilliant night. Well organised, well run and exciting to watch. Thanks to everyone involved from me anyway! In fact, it would be brilliant if every year ended with a salon style annual because it's a great way to round the year off... as long as I'm never asked to do the job Simon did :)

I must disagree Ian (well done with the sparrowhawk). It was well organised but it was an extremely boring evening simply because we had seen so many of the images so many times before over the last couple of years.
There seemed to be very little new work on display.
What do other folks think?

That's a good point but it was the annual after all and I know I certainly didn't have another 10 new images printed and ready to use! Material costs, time, etc and the annual is what it is. It's a bit repetitive but the style in which we did it helps. I viewed it as a round up of the year's images and there were a few new ones.

I liked the evening even though the judges didn't rate my pics :-(
I really enjoyed the format of the evening. I agree Terry that it was a pity that we knew most of the images so very well (I'm guilty with one of my recurring images too - but I did put in 3 new ones).
However the nature of the annual is that all leagues are competing on an equal footing and we are all likely to want to use images that have received positive comments before and have more chance of doing well. Ian's sparrowhawk picture actually is an example of how this can be a good thing - Ian (Ian I hope you don't mind me using your pic as an example here...) had entered that image in a previous competition and it was pretty much overlooked. These judges (rightly IMHO) gave it a very high score so it was good that Ian gave it another go. Printing costs are also an issue. Maybe in the future you could limit the entry to 5 that have been used before and if you wish to enter 10 then others must be new material. Then there would be a better mix perhaps.

The annual is always likely to be looking at images that we have seen before. It's never been any different even when we have had one judge talking about each image. Debbie's comments are very pertinent and I quite like her idea of the 50 - 50 split between old and new.
As a matter of interest how many old and how many new images did you put in Terry?

I have no complaints about the judges even though I disagreed with them on a few photos as we probably all do.
I had 3 new ones in but the others (apart from one) had only one outing. It seems so many images are so familiar and have most certainly been aired several times in the last couple of years.
It is good to get a second opinion on images. Davids "White Row" got slated the first time but rightly was fully appreciated last night.
The Annual is a round up of the Club's year and it is fine that it is on an equal footing. However I did find it boring looking at so many photos that we have seen so many times previously.
Glad to have started an interesting debate.
By the way Mick will we be having the Annual PDI results on the web soon.

Terry - the Annual PDI results are with Ian and he is looking at a way to display them on the web site. It may take a little time as they are not like the league results. I suspect the same will go for the annual print as well - but I do know he is working on it.

As a very recent new member of the club I have to say that I am still in the dark as far as the rules and regs of showing images but every judging night I've been at with the exception of maybe 2 have been of the same images. If what Terry is saying is right and the images go round for 2 years in all formats then it does make for dull viewing after so long. Although I had seen most of the images more than once before last night it was a good night and a good judging format (more please).

As far as images shown at club nights are concerned any image should at most appear four times if it is entered for both print and pdi comps. We do try to encourage entering different images for the pdi's and the prints but understandably people (and I am guilty too) like to enter their 'best' images in all the comps to give themselves the best chance of doing well.
We could, I suppose insist on different images in each style of comp - not sure what people would think - but this would ensure a greater mix of images and individual ones only being viewed twice.
Images are not 'around for two years' in our internal competitions. Of course images entered for our external comps may well be viewed again when the results of those comps are given.
I hope this helps John - it would be interesting to hear what other people's views are.

I have been a member of Dumfries Camera Club for 28 years. During that time the Annual Print Exhibition/Competition has always been intended as a celebration of the best work from that year. Normally this followed a similar format to our monthly competitions, in that a judge would comment on the images presented and choose their favourites. The difference being that the prints were often already hung in the gallery and that awards were presented rather than scores.

This year, for the first time, we have had an Annual Print Exhibition and an Annual Print Competition. The exhibition encouraged members to show previously unseen work, preferably as a coherent panel, whilst the Competition still exhibited the best of our work from the year, whilst presenting it in a new and, in my opinion, more exciting format, greatly removed from our normal monthly competitions.

In my opinion, this has been the biggest step forward during my time in the club and I feel that both the Exhibition and Competition were a success. I am therefore slightly surprised by some of the rather negative comments.

As a new memeber to the club my impression so far has not been a negative one at all,I dont feel in any way qualified to give negative comments ,only general observations on things I would like explained.
I undersdand that all clubs have rules,formats,protocol and long standing members who may not like change or new things happening to there club, but without discussing observations made by new members the club would never move forward and embrase new ideas which can come from even the most inexperienced of us.
Hopefully after the summer break when the club starts up again I will have read and understand the workings of the club and be at least in a small way able to contribute somthing more than just a few images to the club, but until then I can only comment on what I see on a club night,not negativaty only observations to be explained.
Dumfries Camera Club is a good club and I do enjoy coming along most nights to see a great mix of images ,but as a complete novice I understand how maybe newer members may feel that new and different images would not go down well and without the confidence to put them out there the same sorts of images will allways dominate ,hense making it look as though the images have been doing the rounds for ages.

It is true that the same image can come up many times as a PDI, as a Colour Print and as a Mono Print. Also Anne and I sometimes have a picture of the same thing - we try to avoid it but if the image is good we both want to win! As a result you have seen 7 or 8 pictures of little girls playing the piano in the Gori Piano School - not always the same girl or the same piano or the same room but similar. Do we need to apologise for this?

I don't see this as a problem. It has already been pointed out that different judges have different opinions and the second opinion is often more welcome than the first.

Also we need to have access to the different forms of the better images if we are to continue to compete succesfully in the Scottish and UK arena. I don't know if our newer members realise how succesful we are. I visit many clubs each year all over the UK and every club I go to knows about Dumfries. We rank well up in the Top 10 in the UK - in fact I claim that we are in the top 1 of "real" clubs (as opposed to groups set up for competition purposes). This is only possible because of the great array of wonderful work we can draw on in PDI, Colour and Mono.

As Johnston didn't say "the man who is tired of the Dumfries annual competition is tired of life".

I was rather stung by your comment John that you understand there are "long standing members who may not like change or new things happening to their club". I see no justification for that viewpoint in this club which has always encouraged input and debate, especially from new members.

I was disappointed that no-one marked their prints as Beginner so that the judges didn't have the opportunity to make that award. Perhaps we needed to explain it more or perhaps people didn't know how a Beginner would be defined?

The only new suggestion I see above is the 50/50 split of old and new from Debbie which has neither been aired or dismissed by old or new members. On the whole it sounds interesting and may even encourage and generate more images. But I agree with Simon's view point on this quite strongly when he talks about the annual as a celebration of the best work from that year. Might be just me - but I really like seeing many of these images again. You tend to remember what has been previously mentioned about an image so you can have that in the back of you mind when the scores are read out, and you also get a chance to have your own images given a final whirl past the judges. My original comment was towards the format of the salon style judging for the annual and I still stand by that as being a brilliant format for presenting and judging the best of the year's images.

Rod, IMO the information for beginners was available within the site and I don't think it could have been clearer. It was posted and discussed and it was also on the competition rules page as were the PDI Categories which someone mention they couldn't find. All the members have the ability to comment and post questions should they be lost by something and they will be answered (usually) very quickly. My point being that I think you were very proactive and thorough with this.

My comments were not aimed at you John and I was not being critical of anyone's opinions. I am delighted to receive constructive input from any member, particulary new members. This is why we try to include newer members on our committee every year so that they can provide a fresh perspective on how the club operates and present new ideas on how we can improve and progress.

The reason why I was a little disappopinted with some of the feedback was simply due to the fact that after considerable discussion at last year's AGM, the committee took on the ideas expressed with regard to our existing Annual Exhibition and produced what I consider to be a far more interesting format, split between the separate Print Exhibition and Print Competition. Sorry Terry, but looking at all the woderful prints that were on show on Wednesday night, it was the word 'boring' that I found most difficult to get my head around.

The AGM is next week so anyone with any ideas or comments that we can take on board for next season, please do not sit in silence.

And as the great Forest Gump said 'and that's all I've got to say about that"!

Seriously as Simon has indicated it is great to get a lively debate about the way the club is run so that we can organise events to suite all tastes.

As we see a lot of compilations of outside competitions on club nights we do see the successful images on those occasions as well. Plus viewing them when we help out at judgings i.e. GB Cup.

Sorry if you were stung by my comment re long standing members Rod but is was not directed at you nor the club but only an observation made after listening to comments made on club nights.
I have been in clubs of all sorts and know only full well that unless feelings get aired they never get resolved and as a new member in DCC I can only hope that comments made by members on club nights get aired and resolved at the AGM so that the club fulfills all the members hopes and wishes for the new club year.

Everyone is obviously entitled to an opinion but if the comments you have heard are not directed to committee members or if the people making comments don't get involved with organising the club then such comments are obviously ineffective.

Are you suggesting that the club is ignoring criticisms and new ideas?

(I didn't take the comment personally as I haven't been on the Club committee for two years - I was stung on behalf of the people who do the work and who welcome input from anyone.)

As a new member of the club could i make a comment on the question of why no members entered as beginners, perhaps it was for the same reason as myself.
Although new to the club and only taking photographs for a few years i dont class myself as a beginner, although i am a beginner to competition.

The format of the competition was in my opinion excellent as it gave me the chance to compare my images to those of more experienced club members, and i was delighted when my football shot did so well in the action section.
If a "beginner" labeled shot had been entered it would have had to be entered in beginners or have scored a 5 to be considered for an open category. I learned as much from scoring 9 as i did for scoring 14.
Obviously people are going to enter images that have done well in club comps but i was surprised that there were not more Action , Landscape,and Record entries which had thier own categories and did not have to compete against the more popular "Social Portraits" that tend to do so well in all competitions.

Think the idea of 50- 50 split entries is a good one and would make for more interesting viewing on the night.....

People tend not to air views out loud because of cofidence but it would be good for the club if they could.
How about having a couple of beginners and or more themed nights through the year to air more new images,or is this already done.

Well, well, this has got lively since I last visited. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't posted a thanks now! A good splash of ideas and opinions in a high-spirited debate makes for great reading by the way. Where are the other 40 or so member's thoughts then?

Well, My views on all of the above are simple.

Photography is an art, who can ever get bored of looking at good art!

Personally i don't care how many times i see an image, i could look at the same image 10 times and each time i looked at it i could take something different from it.

Dumfries Camera Club has over the years been very succesful winning loads of awards in national and international competitions, and we are very fortunate to have four leagues of photographers who can produce some amazing work, and at all levels too, and it is from that depth of work that the club is where it is today.
So lets not knock the images we have seen before and lets just admire them instead, last weeks print competition brought out winners from all levels in the club and thats great.
I thought the annual comps both went well, the judging of the print comp was good for giving club members an idea of how the bigger events are judged and show people with an interest in external comps what to expect.

Here's a comment i received while at a recent SPF competition.
A couple asked me who i was with, i replied Dumfries Camera Club, their reply was brief, "Oh right, their good!"
So lets all dig in and try harder, i for one would love to hear the comment, "Oh right, Dumfries, their the best"

So lets all enjoy the summer break, take some brilliant images for next years comps, and take Dumfries to a new level.

Submitted by gordon-rae on Sat 23 Apr 2011 12:30am

Absolutely agree with you Gordon! Could not add more to what it was said already. Club is democratic though, I hope:) and MUST be the spectrum of opinions present. I am afraid that it will never be possible to please all of us at all times, but it is good to know what can be improved. Dumfries is a small town, it is rather a miracle that is doing so well in UK arena, I am always stunned by this and a quality of images I see every night and this is possible because a number of members are immensely involved in Club activity! Let's not allow to slip this through the fingers. There is a Polish saying: Don't shit in your own nest! (free translation, sorry:))

I am the longest standing club member (40 years at the start of next season) and soon to be the Ex president. Keep the comments and ideas rolling. I have been a camera club member so long that I have seen fashions come and go. We need to have constant change in the club. The amateur photography scene is very parochial, and as has been said there is little sports photography and a lot of "picturesque poverty not too close to home" about just now. Spend the summer trying something new.
We are lucky thet we have lots of different subject matter shown, including now some fine art in addition to the record stuff that I churn out. Yes we have seen a lot of the pics in the annual before, but they can't be entered in next year's comp.
Lastly to new members, if you want help just ask. Our club is successful because we bounce ideas and information about.
If you want to shape the club, join the committee.

No don't join the committee ... I don't have enough seats!! Only joking ... you can sit outside on the lawn and we can open the window when you have something to say.

My this is a great debate! I feel as if I am being left out, so here is my tuppenceworth.

Some images that appear the same may have been altered in light of advice received or comments passed by judges in Monthly competitions. All the Images in The Annual will not have been entered in any previous Annual. Accepting that PDI/Mono/Colour are different formats.

As in previous years there will be some new images and some that will have been seen in the league competitions. I don't think that a rule should be added to insist on a specific split between new and 'old'.

It is an opportunity to have images judged again, which in the case of this year, was by a panel of 3 very experienced judges. Images that previously may not have done well may see improved performance.

The Annual competition should be a culmination of all the best images that The Club has produced that season.

I dont think for one minute that the club is ignoring any criticisms Rod,quite the opposite infact, if more members aired their views or became more proactive within the club surely that could only be a good thing for the club.For me the club so far has been all posative and as for the subject matter of the photos,yes I have seen alot of images more than once but 1st. I have only been at the club 3 months so that is quite understandable & 2nd. I have seen loads of really brilliant images on the pairs and presidents challange nights so I know that there are many more images to look forward to next year.
So lets do as the pesident asks and try something new this summer so that some members dont find club nights boring.

I agree with the first part of your note John which is not what I thought you were saying previously.

As a final comment from me; it may be interesting to recall that this year's format for the Annual Print Competition and Exhibition (which I think were a great improvement over recent years) was not based on the proposals of the committee at last year's AGM but on an amalgamation of ideas received from the floor, following considerable debate. So please . . . keep the ideas coming.

I think that this has been the least boring Annual yet. It is obviously something that most members care about.

First of all I would like to congratulate Mick for his hard work this year
with the PDI leagues, But can I ask you all if it would be better,
if you could only put in virgin photos which have not been shown
in print, This would only be in the PDI leagues.
Just a idea.

I'm finding virgin pictures difficult to come by these days.

You can please some of the people all of the time etc. Does my picture of a urinal count as something different and are three (very ) different urinals going to get boring?

Submitted by ian-newton on Sun 24 Apr 2011 8:24pm

Hi everyone! I've got idea for one night in the next season. We can organize a separate Cup for photo reportage. Let's say about up to 10 pictures either prints or PDI with the story to tell. The most interesting story connected with decent picures wins. The voting system can be symilar to the one used for Lochmaben Trophy or external judge with photo jurnalism experience? Story can be about everything: nature, motor racing, travel, own garden in spring, at the farm. Doesn't have to be egzotic, it has to be interesting. There are some external competitions around reg photo reportage. As the egzample and my inspiration the story of my friend from Krakow - Lukasz, who won in one category in FRAME 010 annual international photographic competition:
I would also opt to keep the night about inspirational image. I really enjoyed this night and this will also give everyone a chance to see more varies kind of photography. Something to discuss at AGM?

Hello everyone,

I'm a bit late to the party on this but it's a very interesting read. Assuming I get voted on this week as the next President I thought I'd better participate.

At this time I'll keep my comments directed at the Annual Comp debate but I've got plenty else to say when things become official.

My view follows most of the comments posted and I thought it was a perfect way to end the competitive element of the year.
Yes, most people entered a lot of work that had been previously viewed, but none of it was against the rules set out for entering the competition, so from that point alone, nobody should have any cause for complaint.
I think it's a credit to everyone in the club that we can all produce so much work that is worthy of being judged in a salon style, I dare say there are many clubs who would have struggled to produce 60 prints, let alone 300 or so.
As many people have mentioned too, it's great to get your prints judged by different people, rather than just a one-off comment by one judge on a monthly comp night.
I also have to strongly agree with the points made in relation to cost of printing/mounting and, for me, the big one TIME. I struggle to produce enough prints for the monthly's, never mind the multitude of other comps we can all enter. I have to be honest and say that it never crossed my mind to produce any new work for the annual this year, and I felt no guilt what ever about simply looking through past prints and entering them. I now feel that I should be wearing a horsehair shirt or something for the next 40 days as penance, maybe becoming President will do instead :)

See you all Wed, and remember, we all do this as a hobby for pleasure!!!

Submitted by jim-main on Tue 26 Apr 2011 12:22pm

I don't know if everyone understood how the judging was done but I asked the judges to mark 4 or 5 if the picture was good enough to be accepted in open exhibitions and 3 or 4 if it was Good Club Photography. So anything at 11 and over can hold its head up anywhere! We had LOTS!